Buying Gear

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[edit] What rock shoes should I buy?

From: Rex Pieper
What are a good pair of rock climbing shoes for a beginner? (Outdoor)
One that fits well.
Most of the main brands available at your local climbing store will do the trick: Boreal, La Sportiva, Scarpa or 5.10 being the most common. Boreal and 5.10 usually fit wider feet, while Sportiva and Scarpa fit narrower feet better.
Slippers are not the best choice for beginners.
Get them tight, but not painfully so. Ask the salesperson for assistance and how much stretch to expect over time.
If you can find a shoe demo day, or rent several types from a local gym or store you can try before you buy.
From: thedamco
This is the scoop newbies. Buy a pair of shoes that you can afford. Don't buy them really tight. Think about protecting your ankles while still protecting your wallet. No thin rubber.
If you do all this then you can go get honed somewhere and you can answer the question about your shoes your self. Poor skills will cut you career short, shoes won't. Its like picking an ol' lady. Everybody is different. Try renting from the gym first or from a retail store. Most the time you will find you buy stuff because of what you don't like (on other styles/ brands) rather then what you want.
From: 5.10's old website
QUESTION: What are the best shoes for new climbers?
ANSWER: New climbers typically need a shoe that is comfortable and gives them extra support. They typically have weak feet, so they can benefit from the extra support. They also tend to wear their shoes a little larger than other climbers, so they will not benefit from the support of a snug-fitting climbing shoe. The Spire is a great choice for these climbers- so much so that it has been the best selling climbing shoe in the United States for the last 3 years. The Mojave is a good option for the climber that is looking for higher performance and is willing to sacrifice a little on comfort.
From: Julie
Make sure she tries on LOTS of shoes, in LOTS of sizes. No one can tell her, from the outside, what her feet are feeling. I've seen way too many chest-thumping salespeople insist that only the smallest pair the customer could possibly get on, was the correct size (wrong!)....and as a relative newbie, you're all too inclined to believe that Experienced Climber Salesperson (who's really just too lazy to go get the next size up) rather than your own two feet.
IMHO, a well-fitting shoe hugs the entire perimeter of your foot, uniformly (no uneven pressure points or gaps, around the whole foot). Snug, but *NOT* excruciatingly painful - that's a big gray area, but let and encourage her to make her own mind up on that one, she's the one wearing them. Comfort is much more important, in getting a newbie to keep climbing!
From: Jay Tanzman
Minority opinion: I disagree with the usual advice given to beginners to get sturdy over-sized beginner shoes. On the one hand, we tell beginners how important footwork is, while, on the other, we advise them to wear shoes that hinder their learning good footwork!
The typical beginner shoe lacks the sensitivity needed for learning good footwork. Good technique requires using the feet almost as a second pair of hands. The toes must be able to grab holds in order to pull the hips into the wall. This fundamental face-climbing skill is unintuitive to most beginners and is difficult to learn using shoes that do not permit the wearer to feel the footholds they are trying to use.
When I see a beginner struggling with foot technique, I almost always suggest that they make it a priority to buy a good pair of well-fitting, sensitive shoes, preferably slippers. Once they can actually feel the holds, they often experience immediate improvement in their technique.
From: Michael Riches
Beginners do not and will not be able to develop the kind of foot work, needed to advance, in any significant amount of time, with shoes that are too tight. If you buy a good fitting pair of shoes that are snug and do not allow your feet to slip and slide you can concentrate on many things besides the pain of overly tight shoes. When these shoes stretch you can compensate by adding socks. This will greatly improve the learning curve.
There will come a time that you will start needing more and more foot control and you will want shoes that are designed for that control. There are many types of shoes on the market today and there are some very specific types that will give the climber the control that they need in many different situations. That means that...yes...you may need more then one pair. And you may need to adjust the fit, but the last thing a beginner needs is an overly tight pair of shoes just because that was the way you were taught...
From: Steven Cherry
The theory is that beginners will not enjoy most of the benefits of sensitive shoes but they will "enjoy" most of the disadvantages.
I've been selling climbing shoes for several years now (as previous threads have noted, that doesn't necessarily mean that salespeople do a good job of it or even know much about shoes) and I convinced my shop a few years ago to not sell true beginner's shoes (such as the 5.10 Summit).
So to that extent I think you're right, Jay. There's no point in selling a shoe that people will outgrow in months, if not weeks, especially since most people nowadays have been renting and climbing in the gym for much of that initial beginner period.
However, the Spire, though quite stiff and overbuilt, has as much sensitivity as the average novice can use for their first year or so, especially if they're mostly climbing in the gym, which, at least in my area, is the norm for novices.
By the time they can use a better shoe, their first pair is in pretty bad shape, or at least needs to be sent out. At which point they can buy a better pair of shoes, and it's nice to still have the first pair to use when the second needs resoling or to lend to friends or to use on those climbing-easy-routes-cause-the-weather-is-bad days.
As to slippers, I think either Jay hangs with an exceptional crowd, or he has given less than ideal advice. I know in my own case in my second or third *year* of climbing I first tried on a slipper during a demo-day at my gym, and could barely walk to a route and make the first moves. If your feet are weak you will not be able to climb well in slippers. Most novices have quite weak feet.
From: ropegung_ho
Why hinder their progress with some ill-fitting antiquated insensitive piece-of-shit board-lasted trad shoe?
That's the advice they keep getting here at least. New to climbing? Go get a really *ill-fitting* shoe. Just because shoes are stiff doesn't mean that they won't fit well.
I think this gets back to the issue of figuring out what your weaknesses are. For a beginner that hasn't ever thought about placing his/her feet precisely, that extra sensitivity may not buy them much as they struggle to hit relatively big holds with any part of their foot at all. At the same time, the reduced durability in a thinner shoe means you burn through shoes much faster, which I guess is no big deal if you're rich enough to do that. The same is true for a really tight fit. Worth it if you think that the added foot sensitivity would make a difference in your climbing, not worth it if you can't climb routes that don't have parking lot ledges on them anyway.
From: Marcos
It is not that I cannot take the pain, I have participated in many other activities in wich some pain was expected at least as a beginner but I found that:
1. The painful shoes got in the way of my concentration whenever I got to a difficult spot and I needed all my mind to be on the rock the pain was there trying to intrude.
2. I unconsciously tried to avoid planting my foot in the tight spots that theoretically my tighter shoes would have allowed precisely because the pain was bothering me.
3. I do not really see why they should hurt so much, my toes are curled but that is not painful, I do not feel pain at the tips but at a point right below the joint in the outside of my big toe just where it meets the shoe, it seems it hits right were the rubber and fabric meet. Those points are still sore today after two days off. I feel this could be avoided by better designed or fitting shoes.Or may be this is the way it should feel how should I know?
Brands (in alphabetical order)
Acopa
Boreal
Bufo
CaVa
EB
Evolve
Five Ten
FM Tech
La Sportiva
Mad Rock
Mammut
Millet
Montrail
Red Chili
Rock Pillars
Saltic
Scarpa
Triop

[edit] Where can I find extra-large shoes to fit my big feet?

From: Jim Cormier
I would recommend the following: Go to a custom shoe maker (Steve Kommito in Estes Park, Colorado) and heve a custom shoe made, this will cost atleast $300, or go to a sporting goods store and pick out a good quality wrestling shoe and take to a good resoler and have them put on soles and rands, this will cost about $50-$80 plus the cost of the shoe, you will get a one of a kind shoe and actually pay no more than for a regular shoe. I don't have big feet, but a number of years ago I did this and my total out of pocket cost was $68 ($18 for the shoes and $50 for the soles and rands)
From: Allard Katan
Try the largest size Sportiva Mythos you can find. They're bigger than you'd think from the sizing.
From: Phil Moss
His best bet would be to go to one or two retailers and ask to look at the catalogues and see if they can order them in for him. This is what I have to do (size 13), luckily for me is that I'm friends with one of the local retailers. Quite a few manufaturers do large sizes, but nobody stocks them :(
From: 5.10's old website:
QUESTION: What is the largest size climbing shoe that Five Ten carries?
ANSWER: Our general purpose rock shoes such as the Spire, Mojave, Hueco and the Newton go from US size 2 -15. All other climbing shoes go from US size 2 - 13, except the Diamond and Women's Zlipper, which go from US women's size 3.5 to 10.5, and the Cerro Torre, which goes from US 5 - 13. Our approach shoes go from size 5 - 13, except the Women's Mountain Master and Womens Ventura, which go from US women's 5.5 to 11.
QUESTION: I have a size 19 foot. Can you make a pair of shoes special for me?
ANSWER: As much as we'd like to make custom shoes for every individual, we can not take "special orders."
From: Red Rock Resole
You might try contacting the companies directly:
Boreal USA: (949)498-1011
LaSportiva USA: (303)443-8710
Scarpa (via Black Diamond): (801)278-5552 (I *think* this is correct)
From: Llewokj
Try the Boreal Ballet. They go all the way to UK size 13 (that's US 14). A good all around shoe.
From: SRunnette
Another shoe for your friend to try would be the Sportiva Clif. They also make a high top, though I can't remember the name (it's late). I'm a street fourteen and I've been suffering through narrow lasts for a while now. When something works, I'm surprised and very, very happy. These shoes made me very, very happy. I'm wearing a thirteen in the Clifs, and may even size down a half when I get another pair. Sportiva redesigned their lasts for this season, from what I can tell. The toe boxes seem wider and less likely to cause that horrible lateral crunching noise that happens when bone and shoe disagree (usually somewhere like the second pitch of the second climb of the day, when the heat begins to inflate the distal bits).
From: Hi
You can also try Red Chile(Sausalito) for rock shoes.
From: Daniel
Yeah I just found the Red Chili website the other day and they make up to UK size 14 shoes YESSSSSSSSSS!
So I've contacted them directly and they are sending my nearest dealer (New Heights, Edinburgh) three different models in size 13! Which is incredible as I usually have to buy my shoes in the states as most uk companies stop at size 12. I can't believe I am actually going to get a choice of different shoes to buy for once!!!
Needless to say I'm quiet happy at the moment,

[edit] What quick draws should I buy?

You'd never get ten out of ten climbers to agree on an answer but five out of ten might say this: Petzl straight-gate Spirits on the bolt end, Black Diamond Hot Wires on the rope end and Petzl draws to connect them. (Petzl draws come in three sizes. Some people get a mixture, some get all short and some get all medium.) It's not easy to find a place that sells all three of those pieces. One that I know of is Mountain Gear.
From: Bob Wightman
With quick draws you need the karabiner at one end to have a straight gate with that at the other end having a bent gate. The straight gate karabiner always goes on the bolt/peg. As for the bent gate karabiner basically the wider it opens and the easier it is to open the better. When you start to fumble getting the rope into the krab then you will appreciate this.
As for the connecting slings there are advantages and disadvantages to both open and closed slings.
Open slings:
  • Allow karabiners to move to allow better alignment. I.e. moving the gate away from a rock protusion that could open it.
  • You can put your hand through the sling if things get desperate!
  • You can always add a retainer (lamb castrating rings are good) to fix one end.
  • The karbiners can move round by themselves.
Closed slings:
  • The karabiners are easier to clip because they are less mobile in the sling.
  • The karabiners are always the right way up.
  • If the gear is badly placed you cannot realign the karabiners.
  • Not so easy to cheat with.
Make your choice according to your preferences. One thing to note is that having a selection of lengths of tie-offs/quickdraws is better than having them all the same (usually short) length.

[edit] What rope should I buy?

There's a short answer to this question and a long answer. The short answer is: there's really no such thing as "bad" rope. As long as you get a climbing rope and don't ever lead on a static rope, you can't go far wrong.
The long answer is: it depends.
  • What are you going to use the rope for? Hauling on a big wall, top-roping, towing your boat?
  • Do routes or rappels in your area require a 60m rope? If not, would you like to save the weight of the extra 10m or haul it around just in case?
  • Is the rope likely to get wet? Are you climbing ice or alpine routes? If so, you should consider a rope with a dry treatment.
  • Do you want the lightest rope or the strongest rope? The rope with the longest life? The rope that stands up to the most falls, the highest impact, or the sharpest edge?
  • How much money do you have to spend?
  • Are you going to come back in a week and ask us how to mark the middle of your new rope? If so, consider a bi-color rope.
Four ways to go:
  • Just get the cheapest one you can find.
  • Go to wherever you're planning to climb, find people climbing the kind of routes you're going to climb, and ask them.
  • Post on rec.climbing but make sure you include the answers to all of the above questions.

[edit] Where can I buy cheap gear online?

You won't find a lot of variation in everyday prices, but some good bargains can be found here and there.
US vendors:
The Adventure Source
Altrec
Backcountry.com
Bent Gate Mountaineering
Black Dome Mountain Sports
BoulderingGear.com
Campmor
GearPro
Gendarme Online
Moosejaw
Mountain Gear
Mountain Tools
Northern Mountain Supply
REI
REI Outlet
Rock Creek Outfitters
Spadout - Rock Climbing Gear
Snow Leopard
Starved Rock Outfitters (aka Gear Express)
non-US:
Barrabes (Spain, content in Spanish or English)
Cotswold Outdoor (UK, content in English)
Chamonix 3S (France, content in French or English)
Decathalon (France, content in French, Spanish, English, Italian, Belgium, and German)
Ellis Brigham (UK, content in English)
Mountain Equipment Co-Op (Canada, content in English, most climbing gear can't be shipped to US)
Needle Sports (UK, content in English)
Outside (UK, content in English)
Rock + Run (UK, content in English)
Rocup Mountain Shop (Germany, content in German)
S.O.eScaldae (France, content in French or English)
Sportextreme (UK, content in English)
Taiga Works (Canadian, content in English)
Up and Under (UK, content in English)
Urban Rock (UK, content in English)
Manufacturers who will sell to you directly online:
Black Diamond
Climbingshoes.com
Fish Products
Metolius
Trango
See also:
ODP's Directory of Climbing Gear Retailers
ODP's Directory of Climbing Gear Manufacturers

[edit] Why should I buy climbing gear from my local store?

From: Paul Brooks
You can go to your local climbing shop and try the stuff on for size etc, then order it over the web.
If this attitude prevails, you will only be able to do this for a limited period. Surely there is some moral value to supporting your local climbing shop to ensure its continued existance!
From: Rob Naylor
You can go to your local climbing shop and try the stuff on for size etc, then order it over the web.
And once everybody's done this for all their purchases for a year or two, your local retailer (who's acted as an unpaid trial facility and probably information source as well) will be out of business and you'll be stuck with buying "unseen and untried" over the web.
Yeah, great...please carry on advising people to do this since I think my local outdoor shop should be closed down and turned into a theme restaurant as soon as possible (not).
From: Ken Cline
Shopping locally and then buying by mail order isn't exactly fair to the shops and is counter-productive in the long run. It hurts the local retailer who pays for stocking the boots you didn't buy and taking the time to show them to you. This practice encourages your area shops to have smaller selection and worse service.
Don't get me wrong, I love a bargain and shopping for price is important. Mail order has its place, too: if you already know the boots you need, go for it. But if you take the time to shop for boots locally, buy them there if they have what you want.
From: Peter Clinch
You pay more in the local shop, yes. But if they provide you something for your extra money like, say, letting you try things on for size, then it can be worth paying them the extra. And that way they're more likely to be there the next time you need to try something on.
From: Mike Clark
Couldn't agree more. I am reminded of an example many years ago of a new member of our climbing club who was very proud of the bargain climbing harness he had purchased cheaply in a sale. When we saw him try it on it was clear that the harness was too big and thus likely to be dangerous in a fall.
You might pay a little extra for the good service provided by many reputable outdoor shops but what value do you put on your life?
If you do the local dealer out of their sales the ploy of visiting them to try things on and then buying from elsewhere only has short term value, not long term, because next time they may not be in business when you call for your fitting!
From: Wild Bill
Small specialty shops NEED steady business and loyal customers to survive. You'll pay a bit more, but you'll receive SERVICE, something that really can't be measured. Most of us aren't rich, but paying a few extra % may mean getting some solid advice from a KNOWLEDGABLE salesperson, meeting a new partner, getting hooked up for trips and demo gear, and developing a relationship with the people who work there.
When I worked in a shop , no comission, I had a group of customers who were MINE. I treated them well, respected them, and did the best I could for them. They appreciated that and came back to me when they needed help, new gear, beta or to shoot the shit. One of my favorite moments was when a beautiful woman came up to me and announced that she was Mike R.'s girlfriend, that she KNEW that he shopped here, and that she was here to buy him two new ice tools for his birthday. I sold her what I KNEW he wanted (though personally I hated them, and had tried to talk him into the tools I use) and felt pretty smug knowing that he'd come in a few days all STOKED about his new toys. I ended up as a groomsman in another customer's wedding.
Help these people out, or they'll disappear......
From: Simon Parker
I agree 100%. If you shop only on price that is all you will get. Local knowledge, and personal service are worth that small entra amount you may pay.
The end result of buying only on price is that you'll end up dealing with a telesales drone who takes your order for Flexi Friends one minute and processing an order for a thighmaster the next.
Support your local shop. They tend to be knowledgable and interested in local issues. Will a 1-800 company really care if the local crag has been closed due to access and insurance issues? I think not.
From: Phil Sidel
Let me put in a plug for "Support Your Local Outfitter." The few bucks you might save by finding the cheapest mail order will be more than made up for by the service and information you'll get from a good local shop. I've certainly found it worth my while to go to our two good outdoors gear stores here in Pittsburgh (Exkursion and Mountain Dreams). They provide all kinds of information and help that I'd never get from mail order. And their sales staffs are folks I see at the crags and at the gym and at our local Explorer's Club meetings.
Besides, they provide sales and price deals that make them competitive with the mail order houses in almost all instances. I feel like I get "extra" service when I go in those stores, maybe it's because they know me as a regular customer who will be coming back -- I support them and they support me -- very mutual.

[edit] What should I buy for a beginner's rack?

From: Robert Williams
Let me quote my friend Ratagonia when I asked him about gear recommendations for my first rack: "you get six climbers in a room together and ask them about what to have for your first rack and you'll get eight answers."
From: Tim Wallace
Climb with some good, experienced climbers until you work out what kind of gear suits you (ie. the type of climbs you like, the length, the location etc.). Get experience with as much different gear as possible then you will know what you want.
From: Geoff Jennings
First, your'e going to get lots of suggestions to check Google Groups. this is a topic that comes up very frequently
Second, mountain Gear and Shoreline offer lead packages that might save you a few bucks if oyu can swing it all at once.
Third, it does depend on where you climb.
From: mpahl
Start with a totally passive rack... cheap and you will become a master of passive gear in no time flat... nothing is more impressive than seeing a guy (or gal) one-hand a tricam into a vertical pocket, stack nuts as fast as a normal climber could place a cam, or hammer a hex into a placement with a loose rock...
get a set of nuts, a set of hexs, and a bunch of small tricams... the pinks and reds are especially important...
From: Charles Tarzen
But the advice i give to new climbers is camalot .5-#3 and a set of nuts for a rack. fill in the tcu's w/ metolius, fill in the larger sizes w/ wild country.
From: Steven Cherry
One strategyy is this:
  • Phase 0 - gym gear
shoes, harness, belay device, belay biner
  • Phase I - seconding gear
several locking biners, several 2-foot slings, one cordalette, nut tool, helmet
  • Phase II - toproping gear
more locking/nonlocking biners, webbing, more slings, climbing rope a few nuts, cams, and/or hexes as needed in your climbing area
  • Phase III - sport leading
10-15 draws
Once you've gotten this far, you've spent at least a third of what a rack would cost if you started from scratch.
Then design your rack, but buy it in pieces if need by. First a set of nuts, then some more passive gear (hexes, tricams, another half set of nuts) then a few cams. Keep buying the biners you need for racking when you buy the gear they will rack.
Try not to let price determine what you buy. You'll have the gear a long time and it's very painful to buy something to replace something you already have just because you don't like what you bought first.
See also:
Basic Climbing Advice on Needle Sports
Building up a Climbing Gear Rack from the Ipswich Mountaineering Club
What cams should I buy? on Tradgirl
Should I carry tri-cams? on Tradgirl
Should I carry hexes? on Tradgirl

[edit] What bouldering pad should I buy?

From: Tom
Although Misty Mt. does help sponsor our web site, I can honestly say they make the most durable pad I've used. Just an all around quality product that will last for years (both the foam and the shell). We just reviewed both of Misty's pads - check it out here: http://www.bouldering.com
The latest improvments in the Cordless line also make these pads hard to beat - and they look cool, too, if you care. My only complaint here is breakable buckles that require sewing to replace...
I've seen lots of other pads hitting the market recently, but I would look carefully at the craftsmanship. I have seen pads fall apart in less then a year of normal use, and cheap foam will break down quickly, leaving you with nothing more than an oversized bouldering carpet.
From: chris watford
Cordless, Cordless, Cordless!!!!! (no, I don't work for them, but I've used and seen many. They are THE BEST, hands down. Well worth the $150-$160 bucks.
From: Robert Bolton
My vote gets the Fish Maxi. I've owned the Kinnaloa and beat myself stupid on cordless and Pad industries pads. Russ's design works well (plus it looks soooo suave). More comfortable in an impromptu drunken bivi as well.
From: StubbornMonkey
I have owned both a metolius and a cordless crash pad. While the Metolius is a bit stiffer and good for highballs, it has injured the ankles of two of my bouldering partners. The edges are very squared off, and if you fall on the edge of the pad, you can twist you ankle. The Cordless pads have more rounded edges, and are much less likely to sprain your ankle.
From: Bobby
I would go with either a Fish MaxiPad or Cordless large. The Metoluis is smaller than the others and has a hinge design for folding. The taco shape folding of Cordless or Fish allow you to shove all your bouldering essentials into the pad. I was able use both the Cordless and Metoluis before buying one; of these I went with the Cordless and have been very happy with it. I have not had the chance to use a Maxi pad but have heard good things about them. They seem to be the best pad for the money.
From: Kim McCleskey
I like my Metolius pad best. I've got a large (but still portable) Cordless, and my biggest complaint is the buckles. After only taking it out three times one was already cracked -- it still closes, for now, but the Metolius ones seem impossible to break.
The Metolius is also easier for me to store. That may not be a concern for you, but the Metolius is okay stored folded, whereas the Cordless really needs to be laid flat, which takes up a LOT more space. Since I don't have tons of storage space, this is pretty key for me.
Of course, the Cordless is slightly larger and has a pocket to keep keys & little things (ID, lip gloss for us girls) in, and seems to be made out of slightly more durable fabric.
As far as landing goes, I like them both. Nice and soft, even over lumpiness. And both work fine when using them as a backpack and stuffing your gear in between the folded sides.
From: Mick Ryan
They are all the same in my book and I've tried them all. They are all as durable as each other - even those made of ballistics, rather than that cordura stuff. Center seam makes not one iota of difference : covential wisdom says that the hinge is an ankle breaker or a weak spot- that's bollocks, the real danger is hitting the edge of your pad - all pads have edges. Advantage of hinge is the ease of putting it away.
Go for metal buckles or velcro over those stupid sand-filling snappy plastic buckles. Also three carrying points is very useful - shoulder strap, back pack strap, and handle.
Cordless, PAD, Metolius, Mysty - they are all good.
See also:
Crashpad Reviews on PawnClimbing.com
Crash In Review on TopRope.com
What should I use to cushion my fall? / How can I self-belay on my home wall? on Tradgirl

[edit] Which fingerboard or hangboard should I buy?

From: Mike So
Any suggestions which I should get?
Yes. None.
I am new to climbing and am only going in the gym so far but man are my fingers weak!
Be patient. Climb regularly and be very careful to avoid overtraining. Strength will come in time. Sometimes less is more.
From: Kelly Rich
I've seen a few of these things, and they all are sort of the same. What I can recommend is that you get one with a variety of hold types--pockets, crimps, slopes, and jugs. This may sound pretty obvious, but you'd be surprised at how many boards don't have a good variety. Like the Met. Simulator. While this thing is big compared to the PowerFinger, I don't think it has near the variety of hold types.
From: Simon Isbister
While I've only owned one commercial board (and made the one out of wood- worked out very well...), I have played on lots at various gyms, etc., I think the board you use is less important than what you do with it. Obviously, the board has to interest you, for you to keep using it, but that is more a personal choice. A finger board regimen can get tired pretty fast, so you do have to have a certain degree of dedication to stick to it. But if you can do this, they certainly can help to gain back strength, etc.
From: Chris Leger
I like the Metolius Rock Rings. More important than which one you get is how you use it, I think--I put mine up in my office and they saw much more use than when they were at home.
From: Robert Behrens
I prefer rock rings by Metolius. I don't know if it is true for everyone, but the rotation of the rings allows my arms to rotate freely (thus allegedly reducing strain on the elbow joints).
From: Mark, 7/23/2002
I put up a nice Franklin finger board in my hall about a year ago but to be honest I quickly lost interest in using it and now it's just a strange curiosity for visitors passing under it...
From: Adam J Beavan
Why not make one, or is that to much like hard work!!!!
See also:
How do I build and use a finger board, hang board, campus board or HIT strips? on Tradgirl

[edit] Should I buy slung hexes or wired hexes?

From: Dave Virdee
I reckon the wired hexes are superb - used them this winter for mixed climbing and found them easier to place and less fiddly than the slung hexes - put a bit of duct tape below the hex to pull strands of wire together and then hex doesn't slip down the wires - you can teeter on your crampons and thread that perfect hex placement above you before going for the crux axe-mantle move...
From: Hans Lehman
I'd say that wired hexes are the way to go. They're stiff enough to give you a little extra reach when placing them. I've seen some people fix up the slung hexes with really long slings (we're talking as long as a single runner), to avoid having to add a quick draw, but I could never really get into that idea.
From: John Byrnes
I totally disagree. Sling your hexes with cord long enough that you don't need to use a draw in most cases. Clip them on the rack with their own biner. A lot lighter per placement than wires and draws, and take half the time to place.
In addition, hexes are cams and they work better when the cord is flexible.
From: John Kramer
My rack started off with a full set of the wired hexes but my limited experience thus far has caused me to switch to something less rigid. I am by no means a trad guru, having just started placing gear recently, but these are the problems with wired hexes that I have found so far.
1. Hard to tell the difference between a hex and a stopper on the rack.
2. Harder to place a wired hex under an overhang. (stiff wire doesn't like to bend)
3. Requires yet another quick draw and thus more weight.
4. One of the little wires that makes up the cable on the #4 hex broke just from holding my body weight (not sure how found it later that evening while checking the gear after the climb)
All in all I like the hex as a placement but prefer the gemini2.
From: Alistair Bruce
as to wether wired or slung, both have advantages, but I prefer the slung variety as it gives the option of using the hex 'round a corner' without the nasty kinked wire thing happening, also you choose the length of the cord and can choose to have 'em long and dangly and forego the need for an extender/quickdraw (they do good cowbell noises this way too!)
From: BigBrain3
I've pulled two loose hexes off of ropes when following two separate leaders with entirely different styles - both of them wired. I only really use mine for top rope anchors. The slung units just seem to stay in better with lead rope drag.
From: Hal Murray
The answer probably depends upon what sort of climbing you do, what type of rock you are climbing on, what your friends like, and various other things. Onterwise known as "it depends".
I suggest borrowing some from friends to see how you like them. Your opinion is what's important.
See also:
How do I sling my hexes? on Tradgirl.

[edit] What should I use to make a cordelette?

Note: some of these answers were taken from Gunks.com
From: Tokyo Bill
With respect to materials, the choices I've seen most frequently suggested are 5.5mm Spectra cord, 7mm perlon accessory cord and 6mm perlon accessory cord. All apparently get the job done. My personal comments on each are as follows:
Spectra: This is what I carry. It's way stronger than anything else out there, and the narrow diameter is a plus for carrying. With respect to handling characteristics, its stiffer than perlon, which is a little bit of a pain, but I don't think its a big problem in a cordalette. Spectra's got a much lower melting point than perlon, which means that you run a higher risk of burn-through if it gets subjected to friction somewhere in the system. However, I don't ordinarily expect a cordalette to be subjected to friction, so I'm willing to accept this risk. Finally, Spectra is slippery, which means an ordinary double fishermans knot doesn't do the job. Make sure you tie it with a triple fishermans and consider finishing this with overhand knots.
7mm perlon: Amply strong (not as strong as spectra, but with a higher melting point). Nice handling, although a bit bulky to carry. No complaints about this alternative.
6mm perlon: Should be strong enough. Nice handling and the smaller diameter makes it more compact to carry than 7mm. Just doesn't feel beefy enough to me, and I wouldn't make it my first choice for this reason.
One additional comment with respect to length. I've sometimes seen recommendations in climbing books and on other forums of 16 or 18 feet for tying cordalettes. My own feeling is that you're better off with at least 20 feet, and mine are actually a bit longer (around 21-22 feet). Cordalettes are at their best for letting you rig together and (sort of) equalize widely-spaced pieces quickly and efficiently. It's a real pain in the butt to discover that your cordalette isn't long enough - kinda defeats the purpose.
From: TZ McBetsey
I've got two...first one 18 feet (recommendation of John Long in his anchor book). That's too short, in my opinion, unless you happen to luck into anchor points that are very close to one another; and it requires that you stand right up against the rock when belaying up a second. Sub-optimal, to say the least. My other one is 21 feet long, and seems just about right, but if you want 4 pieces for your anchor (rather than the nominal three), your cordalette will need to be longer than that.
From: Steve Y
5.5mm High Tenacity Vectran Cordelettes
These are sold by Sterling Rope Company they are as strong as Spectra, but as supple as nylon. I got the 25' but it's too long 21' I think would be best for most trad applications. The downside is expense, about $1/foot. The upside lighter, stronger and less bulky.
From: http://www.xmission.com/~tmoyer/testing/High_Strength_Cord.pdf
How strong should your anchor be? One arm of a Vectran cordelette, for example, fails at only 2600 lb (11.5 kN). This is little stronger than a good carabiner in the open-gate mode - and the material gets weaker with use. Is this strong enough? One can easily argue that the drop test we performed is unduly harsh. First, it uses a completely static belay. A sticht-plate or tube belay-device can reduce the peak impact forces significantly. Second, the lead rope is run through the central anchor point. This practice increases the load at the anchor. Third, the test loaded only one arm of a cordelette. While the cordelette anchor does not equalize when the belayer shifts position, there is typically enough stretch in each arm that all three will be loaded to varying degrees in a major impact. Fourth, Chris Harmston, Black Diamond's Quality Assurance Manager, has reviewed field failures of climbing gear for eight years. He has never seen a stopper rated at over 10 kN fail, and has seen only a few carabiners fail in closed-gate mode. He believes that forces exceeding 10kN rarely happen in climbing falls.
All that said, we do not think it is unreasonable to expect one arm of the anchor to hold at least one UIAA fall on a soft rope when both the rope and the cordelette material are new! The decrease in strength with use is a worry for any of the Technora, Kevlar or Vectran materials. The Gemini and the Spectra-A are also extremely stiff and difficult to tie and untie. An 18 -foot piece makes a bulky object hanging from the harness. They make excellent chock cord (where a stiff cord is desirable), but would make a poor cordelette. Among the high-strength cords, Titan seems to be the most suitable material for cordelettes. The Ultratape is even better, and the webolette is an elegant solution to multi-point anchors, although we'd prefer to see slightly higher strength on the single-strand arms. Last, Nylon cord and webbing may be the best of all. Although heavier, they are cheap, strong, universally available, and seem to have a virtually unlimited flex life.
From: David Kreindler
In your exceprt "From: http://www.xmission.com/~tmoyer/testing/High_Strength_Cord.pdf", I think a couple of editorial comments are needed to clarify that what they refer to as "Gemini" is Gemini-2 (Technora) and what they refer to as "Titan" is Spectra (Dyneema). Someone who relies on the excerpt without referring to the article quoted might be left confused.
From: Wallhack
Consider getting a Web-o-lette. Much lighter, less messy, and quick to set up an anchor.
From: Julie Haas
I have a web-o-lette, but I'm still not sold on it. It's great and fast at a two-bolt belay; but for oh, say, three not-so-close pieces, you have nowhere near enough length to join them, much less tie the required knot. So, as noted above, it defeats its own purpose - you have to use runners to extend everything.
See also:
How to Choose and Use Webbing and Accessory Cord on REI

[edit] How does buying stuff from Barrabes work if I live in the US?

From: James Kirby
I've never had a problem with their customer service in many orders and have in many cases received my order that same week (phoned the order rather than online).
From: Kai Larson
I have had good experiences with Barrabes. Three friends have also purchased from them. One of them experienced a long delay (several weeks) in receiving gear because it was out of stock (they didn't notify him that a delay was expected). The others received their gear within a week.
If they have what you want, the prices are pretty much unbeatable.
From: Jason Liebgott
Barrabes has given me problems. First they didn't have some of the stuff in stock that they had on their site. Then they shipped to my billing address instead of the shipping address, then once I got the gear they sent the wrong size cams.
Also, for some reason my shipment got held up in Customs. They said it was because they didn't recieve a detailed description of the goods. I had to fax a description to NY.
I contacted them and it took over 2 weeks to hear back, but they did say they'd cover the shipping back to them. Also, I got a customs bill for like $18 on the imported goods - so expect that.
From: Chris Watford
You'll get totally hosed at customs when it comes into this country, EASILY more than the $ you saved. Since ecommerce is dicey to customs folks, they check everything now, especially from Canada.
From: Michael Gordon
NOT TRUE in all cases. I just made the exact purchase he speaks of (Rambos' from Barrabes) and paid nothing more than the item cost plus DHL shipping charges. nothing more.
From: Chalkula (on Gunks.com)
Just a further note, if you spend over a certain amount of money, in my case just over $200, don't be surprised to get a bill from DHL or other shipper for import tax due, I got one for $18.00. I don't know at what dollar amount constitutes the tax but just be prepared. ( I still saved over $85.00 on an altimeter, even with the charges!)
From: Geoff
Be aware that all imports are assessible for Customs Duty. In the US you may in most cases import $2000 for personal use as long as it is not prohibited in any way.
The climbing stuff in Barrabes is OK. The amount of duty also depends on the status of the country imported from. Spain is OK.
The duty on Ice tools will be 4%, again nothing compared to the savings.
However if goods are not declared for customs, they will be confiscated. Not nothing. And you will be subject to penalties as well as losing the gear. Ouch.
and from a later post
Everything is assessed for duty. The $2000 is an allowance for personal use that you are allowed without getting an import licence. You only get a duty free allowance if you are travelling with the goods. The duty free would be (guessing amount here) the first $200 is exempt from paying duty, and the duty rate applied to everything else.
The Country of Origin and Import country means what rate of tariff you pay. Spain is a favored Country and you pay the lowest rate. Also the common country of Origin for Ice tools (UK, France, Italy) are also favored. From a shoes perspective Boreal is a Spanish company and qualifies. I did not look up Czeck.
4% on Ice tools is because I looked them up on the Customs website. They come under "sports equipment". and have a 4% rate. I did not look up shoes. This would also be a Customs interpretation, are climbing shoes clothing or sports equipment.
Yes, lots of people do not declare or pay State sales tax. State tax departments do not have the same powers of search and siezure as the US Customs. If you really want to p*ss someone off, pick a target that will make your life miserable.
My position is that even with declaring and paying the duty the gear is a great price. The only time you really lose is if you try to get away with it and get caught.
This only affects me if so many people get caught that they disallow personal imports, then I get screwed too. The other thing that applies is some stuff has import limits. Once x of these are imported no more can be that year, personal or commercial. Then you either pay Customs storage until next year, or send it back. This does not apply to undeclared goods, they are siezed and either sold at auction or destroyed.
From: Mike Garrison
An actual reference
You can carry in $400 of goods without duty, but you can only have $200 of goods mailed to you. However, there seems to be no limit to how many separate <$200 orders you can have mailed to you.
The website notes "There are some exceptions". I think this means booze, perfume, and tobacco, but I'm not sure.
See also:
Barrabes
Check With 'US' Before Shopping Online – US Customs
Your Responsibility and Liability as an Importer from the U.S. Customs Service

[edit] What cams should I buy?

From: Nate Beckwith
First - there are two brands of cams to choose from - Wild Country, and Black Diamond. Also CCH for the smaller sizes. Everything else is cheap crap only purchased with future regret by poor high school students and clueless newbies looking for meaningless functionality. This should be the end of this post, except I just ate a big lunch.
Take a look in any guidebook from anywhere. Do you see "Bring a # 2 [insert off-brand crap cam here] for the crux" or [insert off-brand crap cam here] mentioned in the gearlists? Better print out a decoder table. Maybe the fact that the rest of the friggin world sticks to two brands of cams should be a clue. Go to your nearest store and try to find trigger kits for [insert off-brand crap cam here] cams. Also, I guarantee that anyone you partner up with is going to want to climb with cams they are familiar with. If you dump a bunch of [insert off-brand crap cam here] into the community pile, expecting that you'll be making some sort of contribution rather than being perceived as a clueless cheapskate - just wait.
Now - which cam? BD or WC? Get 1 set of BD, then lots and lots of WCs. Here's why: Your observation that BD cams are heavier is an astute one. That's why when you start carrying 2-15 each racks, you'd rather they be something light - like WC rigid stem friends for the larger sizes, and flex friends for the smaller sizes. BD cams, however, are the best thing for routes where you need a sparse rack. Fewer (and thereby lighter) BD cams can cover the same spectrum. Take your little calculator and add up the weight of the .5, .75, 1-3 Camalots, then compare that weight to however many [insert off-brand crap cam here] cams you need to bring to cover the same spectrum. Toss in some CCH Aliens or maybe a flex friend or two for sizes smaller than the .5 Camalot.
Oh - and ignore the advertised strengths of cams. None of them will break. Move on.
From: Christian Brooks
I agree, you ain't going to break a cam. Metolious TCUs are great, Trango TCUs are great. But, both companies FCUs suck- horrible designs. A mixture of Friends and Camalots is the way to go. Throw in A few Aliens and a set of TCUs and you will get where you want to.
From: Brent Ware
Since I got my offset Aliens, I have not wanted to place a TCU ever. The only time I do is when I run out of Aliens. If I had it to do over, I'd skip the TCUs and just get more Aliens.
And sorry Nate, but I like my HB quadcams. They're beauties, and in using them 10 years, I've had one trigger break, compared to each of my Camalots having the trigger replaced one or more times, just about every six months. I'll take not needing to get new triggers over being able to find them in any shop (and I send them to Vermin anyway for beefy cheap fixes - they seem to hold up better than the original triggers, haven't had to get one of them replaced yet).
That said, I haven't bought any more, just new Camalots and Friends. So what Nate said.
From: Karl Pfleger
These [note: refers to WC and BD] are the predominant brands purchased by people who have a lot of money or enough time to work in a climbing gym or outdoors-type stores like REI and thus get big discounts. Plenty of other brands make excellent quality cams and other pro.
Furthermore, both the WC Friends and BD Camalots have a single stem design, which has certain advantages and disadvantages (as do the Alients). The cams this poster is insulting mostly have dual-stem U-shaped design, which is better in some conditions than the single-stem design, so it is helpful to have a variety. Variety is also helpful to increase the chance of having something fit well as the different manufacturers have slightly different sizes.
If you want really cheap but nonetheless perfectly functioning and strong cams check out [www.rockempire.com www.rockempire.com]. You can get a set of 5 cams covering the most common sizes for $125, or 8 cams which are these 5 plus 3 microcams very very similar to Alients for $180 total. I'm not affiliated, just a happy customer. There are many extensive discussions about these cams on the message boards on the gunks.com website, including posts by both people who have used them with good results in holding falls while really climbing and posts by a number of independent purchasers who put them through a series of tests. They are a lot like the Metolious or Trango cams. For $25/cam you can get two sets and then not have to worry if you lose one.
From: Charles Tarzen
I hate Wild Country friends. I find them useless. In the ten years I've owned my flexifriends I've placed them maybe, maybe 2 times each. My Camalots saw a lot of action and still do but I prefer metolius. The TCU's simply can't be beat (except if you're aiding, then use aliens) for thin. I usually rack all metolius these days, except for super wide cracks. But if I'm building an alpine rack I sling a set of nuts, a set of .5-2 tricams, 1-3 TCU (metolius of course), and a .75, 1, 2 , 3, and #4 camalot. Covers everything I've ever run into.
From: B. Cooke
DMM's walk -- oh do they walk... even if you put long slings on them. In fact they are the worst cams i have used in that manner (out of BD, Metolius, rigid friends, and DMM). The DMM's on my rack have walked out of placements entirely and, on the other end of things, into placements so badly that I've had to ruin them getting them out. Also, the DMM's trigger is shit (maybe becasue of the storng spring?) -- it's not smooth at all (like the silky metolius') and requires more lubing than any of the other cams I've used.
From: Jeremy Pulcifer
I shopped around a lot and played with a bunch of partners gear before I bought my current set. I chose WC Friends. I'm not a BD Camalot fan, because they're so stinkin heavy, and the Metolius are a bit sketchy in the bigger sizes because the axle lengths are too short.
Spring strength is a good thing to look at as well. I wasted $280 on a set of trango cams, not realizing that their light springs would make them super-prone to walking. I've lost a couple already.
From: Tom Stybr
The difference in weight between full sets of Camalots (13 pieces - 6 pounds) and Tech Friends (14 pieces - 5 pounds) is <drum roll> one pound. Make it one and one-quarter if subbing Forged for like-sized Tech's.
From: Inez Drixelius
We agree then--the basic set of cams very much ought to be camalots because they are so versatile. What I am suggesting is something lighter for backup cams. Oh hell, when I first started buying cams, I bought all sorts of stuff I didn't like and it took a while to find what suited me. I think the home crag of the original poster should be taken into consideration too.
From: Chris Kantarjiev
I don't know what John will say (I find it ... dangerous to try to predict what he'll say :-) but as a beginner who received similar advice from another one of the Old Ones on this group, I'll say I am happy with the results. Why? I care less about the weight (if I did, I'd still be paying attention to the diet pissing war between Cline and Kastrup) than I care about my poor ability to choose the right cam off my rack. Practice will help, and I'm getting better, but until I get a lot better I'm happy that the Camalots are more forgiving of picking the "wrong" cam than Friends would be. Learning to place gear on lead is strenuous enough without extra gear fumbling.
From: John Brynes
However, this is all hypothetical since the most important factor to consider is: What kind of rock will you be climbing most often in your local area? In other words, where do your local areas lie in the spectrum between Indian Creek (long parallel cracks that only take cams) and Eldo (short pitches, lots of passive placements, discontinuous & varied cracks).
For Indian Creek & Yosemite, for example, Friends are going to be better. For Eldo-like places, Camalots will usually be better. For the Gunks, a flexible stem is better, for...
See also:
Rock Protection Device Size Range Charts on Tradgirl
SLCD Camming Ranges and SLCD (Weight)
True camming unit sizes (ie, real world usage ranges)

[edit] Which helmet should I buy? / Should I get a foam helmet or a hard shell helmet?

From: Eric
As far as hard shell vs foam climbing helmets they both have advantages and dissadvantages (and neither is rated for multiple impacts. The advantage of the hard shell is improved penetration resistance and reasonable impact protection from above. The disadvantage is no side impact protection. This makes them great if your concern is something falling on your head, but not so good if your planning on taking the fall and banging your head on the ground a few times. The foam helmets dont have the same kind of resistance to penetration but are ideal hitting your head during a fall.
From: Hank Moon (Petzl)
The biggest problem with Bike helmets is that they're rated for ONE impact. That might not be bad if you're only a single pitch
This is also the reality of climbing helmets. They are also rated for one significant impact, so any type of lightweight helmet will have the same "problem". The following text appears in the technical notice for the ECRIN ROC:
Major shock
Do not continue to use this product after a major shock : even though no visible signs are possible, internal damage may have occurred, thus reducing its strength and its margin of safety. Do not hesitate to contact PETZL in case of doubt.
Lifetime
It is known that equipment deteriorates progressively with use. After first use this product may have a life of up to 5 years, without taking wear into account. However wear or damage could occur on the first use which limits its life to that use.
Some people think the foam helmets are bunk because a falling rock can take a chunk out. I call this a safety feature: if there is apparent damage, the user will perhaps be less likely to keep on wearing it. There is a perception among some wearers of hard-shelled helmets that because damage isn't readily visible after a major impact, the helmet is still good. This is incorrect: please see the "Major shock" text above.
So If I read you right, here, you are saying that on pitch #6 when that foam bike helmet is badgered into nonexistence, the Ecrin is no better...???
Correct, except for the "nonexistence" part :-)
Even if the damage is not visible...??? Granted, I don't have x-ray eyes, but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see the fallacy here...My money will stay on something that is still intact after any impact. Petzl has to put the major shock disclaimer in for liability reasons...
As stated before, the "intactness" of a hard shell helmet after a major impact is an illusion. This is not stated as a disclaimer for liability reasons, but is a fact established in testing. A major impact can weaken the helmet in ways undetectable by visual inspection. I completely understand why one would prefer a hard hat for the reason stated above - it is easier and more comforting to believe that helmet looks good = helmet is good.
From: Stevie Prouty
What I have a problem with is the fragile nature of the foam style helmets. They just don't last as far as I'm concerned. The Grivel literally fell apart after what I thought was "normal use", i.e. treated just like I did my Ecrin Roc. And the Meteor looks to be a little better quality but after a single use already has a small section where the shell and the cap have come undone. I guess I'll keep my eye on it and see how long it lasts. I'm betting two seasons at best.
From: Hank Moon
I agree completely with your discussion of overall durability, stuffing in pack, tossing in car, etc. My 4-year old Meteor is way more beat up than my 8-year old Ecrin (oops, guess I should retire it, but it's one of those cool marble ones . . . looks so good in photos!). There is no doubt the foam helmets are more susceptible to minor damage from incidental knocks in general use.
From: Christopher Hall
I would suggest trying some on and see what feels best. If you read the reviews, you can narrow it down to a small group that is designed for the types of climbing you will be doing. The next most important thing is comfort. Go figure out what fits your head best and which you feel most comfortable adjusting/etc. Put it on in the store and then sit down to read or browse around a while, and see if you get used to having it on your head. The ones with a bad fit will always remind you that you are wearing it. My experience is that they never feel great at first, so give yourself some time to get used to it. If you can find a few that fit well, then you can choose according to weight and/or style.
From: Toby
If you buy a helmet, the white ones absorb less sun and don't cook your head so much.
From: Dave Condit
I would go with the Ecrin Roc. I think it has the best adjustment system available.
From: brynstrom
If you're going to do any winter climbing, get the Ecrin Roc. The dial adjustments readily (and quickly) accomodate use with and without hats, hoods, balclavas, etc.
From: Adrian Marches
I got the new Petzl Meteor and I love it. It covers more of your head, is very comfortable, and is very light. Sometimes I forget I'm wearing a helmet.
From: Karl Lew
I have Meteor and Roc. I wear the Meteor 'cuz it's lighter. I also wear it on my head, not in my pack.
From: Rex Pieper
I really like the Meteor and have done walls in mine too. They're far more durable than you might believe, just give them a little more respect than you might the indestructable Roc and put them at the top of your pack and you'll be fine.
From: Jim Forbes
I've been pelted by all kinds of stuff for the last 6 or 7 years while wearing an Edelrid and have been generally pleased. It's not so heavy as to make you want to not wear it, but it still has some meat to it.
From: Jeff Wright
The Ecrin Roc really is a great helmet, but you can get a helmet that is lighter and almost as comfortable for $30.00 less (this is saving a lot more than "only a few dollars" in my book). I used to own the Ecrin Roc, but now I have an HB (can't remember the model name). The Ecrin Roc costs close to $75.00 anywhere you look (I have yet to see them on sale). The HB only went at $45.00. The only drawback is that the HB isn't nearly as adjustable, but the way I see it, how many tmes do you need to adjust the fit of your own helmet?
From: Michael Sharp
I just bought a HB Carbon-Kevlar EL Cap and It is one of the most comfortable helmets I have worn.
From: John Muchow
I just got back from a 8-day trip and the BD Half Dome was very comfortable, even with a baseball cap underneath for a bit of sun protection for the face. For me, it fits well, adjusts easily, and took a lot of abuse as we wandered around the Linville Gorge dodging lightening.
From: Mike Yukish
This is a funny. Do you need to be told?
I use a plastic trash bag filled with polyurethane spray insulation, then shove my head into a small wastebasket while the urethane sets. It forms to my noggin perfectly. I use coat hangers for re-bar, and leave the ends protruding to act as curb feelers. I paint it bright orange, with my blood type, HMO number, and names of next-of-kin on it (although if you ask them, they will deny it). Sometimes I tie streamers to it to use as a windsock for my second. Often birds roost on it, so I my tie a piece of suet on. I sell advertising for Power Bars and that nasty power gel too.
See also:
Climbing Helmets by Don Rolph
Light Mountaineering Gear: Helmets by Nancy Prichard
Can I use a whatever helmet as a climbing helmet? on Tradgirl
What should I use for eye protection / a helmet? in Tradgirl's Ice Climbing FAQ
Should I wear a helmet? / Why don't people wear helmets? on Tradgirl

[edit] Which harness should I buy?

From: Brent McDaniel
My girlfriend has a Calidris and she likes it. I've worn in a couple of times and it's pretty comfortable but it has some things that I don't care for such as no haul loop and only 4 gear loops although I do like petzl's autodoubleback buckles. I've got a Misty Mountain Threadworks quantum that I really like. Very comfortable, 6 gear loops, belay and haul loop, all that good stuff. It's a little pricey but, if you're looking at the calidris, it should be in your price range.
From: Marc Andre Giasson
I've owned a Calidris for about a year now, and here are my thoughts:
It's nice not to have to double back, but it's not a really important feature. It's not much faster than double backing the old-style harnesses.
Gear loops are good. I would prefer that the rear ones would be a bit more to the side (slightly more toward the front of the harness), but it's about the same as any other harness I tried.
There's one bad thing on it, but I found it to be a *major* drawback. (I'll try to describe it but it might seem complicate. E-mail me if you'd like me to try to explain better.)
It's the elastic strap which goes from the leg loops to the back of the harness, and the plastic clip that attaches the strap to the harness proper. When I am on a hanging/semi-hanging belays or when I rap, (when I lean on my harness for support) the elastic band extends a lot, so it's like if the leg loops would go down, and the waist belt up, and I end up not having much support at all. Also, the elastic strap under tension pulls on the plastic clip, so that clip always ends up unclipping. Then, there's nothing to hold the leg loops high, and you always realize it when you're in an awkward position.
From: Dawn Alguard
What I like about my Petzl auto-double-back harness is being able to adjust the fit without ever being unsafely not doubled back. It's nice if you want to add or remove a layer mid-route. What I don't like about my Petzl auto-double-back harness is the fear that I'll forget to double back my other harness because the habit isn't ingrained deeply enough.
From: Steven Cherry
I have the Gourou, the predecessor to the Calidris (who was the greek goddess of mexican sushi and light jazz, for those who were wondering), and a big wall harness (Yates Shield). Things I like about each
Gourou
  • auto-double-back, also 2 buckles so the tie-in is always centered
  • though thin, it's fairly wide. comfortable for everything but hanging belays
  • great for ice - easy adjusting, light, doesn't absorb water, folds into my winter helmet
  • only comes in two sizes, I can lend to almost anyone and it will fit
  • decent gear loops (I rack draws and put pro on a sling) negatives - name and color
Yates
  • mega padding, both thick and wide, great especially for those of us climbing with a broken back
  • lots of well-thought-out gear loops including hammer loop
  • full-strength haul loop negatives - bulky in the pack, heavy, belt is slick and hard to tie with breath-gasping tightness
Ditto Dawn's fears about one auto-double-back harness and one not. I triple-check myself when wearing the Yates.
From: Mark Heyman
I just replaced a Targa with a Vero. The Waist sizes listed by REI for a medium are 28.5 to 33.5. I didn't see any sizing information on the Arc'Teryx site. I have a 32" waist, and I wear it cinched up as tight as it will go.So it just fits me, but certainly doesn't fit the expected range.
Overall it is a nicer harness though. It's almost as though my own personal improvement list were implemented, even things just on my wish and not all that important. Better form - wider in the back. Nice way of overlapping ends of the waist belt. More comfortable material inside waist and legs. Larger gear loops in front and smaller in back, haul loop. My Targa didn't have one.
If your not being picky similar BD harnesses are available for almost half the price making the Arc'Terx line seem pricey to me. Yet I bought one anyway.
From: Julie Haas
I had a Countour for a while. It's a harness. It'd be fine.
Caveats: the buckle for dropping the leg loops is at the leg loop (instead of at the waist) which can be uncomfortable to sit on at times. Also, as noted by the gearreview guy, the gear loops are somewhat farther back than in other harnesses. En fin, I found that the webbing at the leg loop buckle ended up entering that buckle at strange angles, and so it seemed to frazzle and get worn out pretty fast, comparatively. I was least happy about that.
The Arc Teryx harnesses seem to be popular, with good reason. I was going to replace the Metolius with one, but then I found a Wild Things catalog. Now I'm happy.
From: Greg Sadowy
I have the Contour Wide, which is o-so-cushy. As well as having lots of padding, it has adjustable leg loops and rise, so it's pretty much guaranteed to fit well. I'm very happy with it. However, you won't like it if you are a gram-shaving weight weenie; it's on the heavy side.
From: Aya Kristen Alt
The metolius 3-D wide doesn't come in an XS, and the S is just ever so slightly too big on me (and I'm by no means a small girl). *sigh*. maybe they figure chicks don't need the extra padding or something.
From: Shilajit T Gangulee
re: the ArcTeryx Targa
I've found mine fine for long hanging belays, though i haven't taken any big falls on it yet, so I can't attest to that. Although I think the leg loops are a little on the small side throughout the sizes.
Special Needs:
Multi-season
From: Dave Condit
I found the Petzl Gourou to be excellent for a mult-ipurpose harness. The padding is made of dense foam that does not absorb water (stay away from fleece padding for winter climbing). It has adjustable leg loops and a very adjustable waist, all very good for layering. In my experience, Petzl's buckles are easier to adjust with gloves and/or frozen hands. The harness also has dropable leg loops for a nice, easy crap.
I've used mine for gym, sport, trad, bigwall, alpine, and ice. There's probably a better harness for any given use, but it does a pretty good job on everything.
From: Kai Larson
Black Diamond Blizzard Harness.
Comfy enough for summer cragging, light enough for alpine. Adjustable leg loops. A good all-around harness.
Cheap/simple/lightweight/alpine
From: Shabber
I like the fit & feel & cost of the Black Diamond Bod harness. It's available everywhere.
Adjustable leg straps, padded waist, no dorky belay loop getting in the way, and only $49.
I like mine :-)
From: Geoff Jennings
I've never actually worn the Alpine Bod, but I did use a Bod for my frist year+ pf climbing, and after wearing a REI spire (also $49, at the time) I couldn't believe I'd been wearing that piece of crap for a year. For the same amount of money you can get WAY nicer harnesses. I'm AMAZED the Bod is as popular as it is, and that poepl would actually choose either for anything other than alpine stuff...
From: Robert Williams
I will agree that the alpine bod is pretty damn uncomfy but I use it for alpine applications (go figure) and have tons of soft clothing on under it. The Bod is not the most comfy of rock harnesses--I would not want to do any hanging belays in it--but for indoor climbing and sport cragging its a fine value.
From: Greg Kneser
I have a Bod and I love it. I've done hanging belays in it, taken whippers in it, done trad, sport, TR, whatever. It's comfortable for _me_.
From: Jim Cormier
For low cost try the Trango vertical or Singing Rock attack. Both are very similar and feature padded waist and leg loops, fully adjustable,have gear loops,.... Cost $40- $45
Guest/adjustable
From: Geoff Jennings
Most of the super-adjustable harnesses, sold for guides and schools are very similar. I have the BD one, which I use for takinf folks out, and have been pleased.
From: Alan Lindsay
If the still make it, the Advanced Base Camp (I think it's called the Guide Harness) is ideal. Even more adjustable that the Black Diamond Bod.
It will fit someone as skinny as your arm or as large as you think the gear will hold!
No padding or gear loops, it's simply three wide webs, buckles and a belay loop.
From: Fritz Lowery
I'll second this. I've got one that my father, not a skinny man, wore and so did a rather lightweight ex-girlfriend. Fully adjustable, with belay loop, $25 or thereabouts.
From: Jim Cormier
I use the Advanced Base Camp Adjustable Guide harness for my clients and we also sell them for starter packages and for schools and camps. They are a one size fits all and very inexpensive $30 but unpadded and no gear loops. Another good one is the Trango Cosmic which is one size fits all and has a gear loop but costs $37.50.
From: Aya Kristen Alt
I believe that the Petzl Club now comes with a single gear loop (and no doubling back the buckles to deal with, to boot.) I don't remember if the BD Vario had gear loops at all, but it's very similar to the Club, with one exception - the combo loop says very prominently, TIE IN HERE. I always got a kick out of that :)
From: Greg Daughtry
The ABC harness is good.
Misty Mountain Threadworks also makes the Fudge, which is another very cheap FULLY adjustable harness.
The bod would not be a good choice to fit the 100lb-250lb range.
Back problems
From: David Kreindler
My usual partner suffers from lower-back pain and found happiness with a Petzl Corax. She did some hang testing in a Calydris too but found that the Corax was more comfortable for her back -- presumably due to the single wide swami instead of the double narrow swami.
Pregnancy
From: Don Rolph
I do know that Patty Crowther climbed (leading if I am not mistaken) well into her pregnancy (8 1/2 months comes to mind, but this is a long way back). I believe she used a chest harness.
From: Clint Cummins
My wife used an old (large-sized) Whillans sit harness. Checking over my old trip reports I see she was still climbing at 7 months (fairly large at that point) (2 months before our first child).
See also:
Climbing Harnesses from Epinions.com
What harness should I buy for big walls? on Tradgirl
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